Frankenbike

topic posted Sun, October 14, 2007 - 8:45 PM by  James
Well, I bought my first bike about two weeks ago for $200. It's a 1982 Honda CB 650 Nighthawk SC. The guy who sold it to me tried to turn it into a custom job, by chopping the back off and welding on the back end and fender from a Harley Sportster. He intended to build this as a bike for his wife. He has also cut the tank with a welder, in an attempt to make the bike (and tank) look more 'wasp-waisted'. The welds on the tank still aren't sealed, so I would have to take it to a welder to get this done. Otherwise, I would need to get another gas tank. The guy suggested either a Harley Sportster tank, or simply a Nighthawk tank.

In the ad, the guy told me that all the bike really needed was a paint job for the frame...which seemed perfect for me since I am getting into doing murals on motorcycles (gas tanks, fenders, etc.) as well as helmets. He welded some custom handlebars for the bike which he thought looked cool, but I don't understand how they would work since they block the ignition lock.


I have also noticed that some other parts of the bike are missing, such as the speedometer/ tachyometer instrument panel.

Of course, half the Bike's engine is removed and is currently sitting in a box in the shed...along with the bike itself. However, in order to paint the frame of the bike, I will have to remove the rest of the engine (the bottom half) myself (or hopefully with some help).

I also recieved a Clymer shop manual for Honda CB fours along with the bike. I suppose this isn't as good as the owner's manual itself but it's better than nothing. The manual actually seems quite comprehensive. However, since I know very little about motorcycle mechanics it seems like quite a daunting task.

When I recieved the bike, I paid $200 in cash for it...yet neglected to get a reciept or the ownership papers for the bike. I called the guy who sold the bike to me right away, informing him of this. He told me that he would either mail the ownership to me, or mail a complex reciept to me...which would permit me to get the bike registered.

I have done quite a bit of research in regards to buying a motorcycle, especially a 'first bike'. One authour warned against the 'false economy' of purchasing a cheap 'fix-up' model, since it would cost more to repair a $200 'as is' bike than it would cost to buy a $2,000 used model that had been certified. I can certainly understand the reasoning behind this, since I must now not only purchase all the tools and parts required to get the bike up and running, but I must also invest the time to take apart the engine, paint the frame, and put the engine (and the bike) back together. Not to mention the fact that I will be effectively learning as I go.

However, even though the investment in tools and equipment for repair and maintenance of the bike might cost as much as another bike...I expect that I could save as much money by learning to do my own maintenance and repair myself. Also, if I want to get into the business of custom motorcycle murals I should become familar with disassembling and reassembling the engine in order to paint the frames of any potential customers I might have.

I can't really say that this bike is a 'rip off', since for $200 the bike is worth the cost of the tires alone. It would certainly be useful as a 'parts bike', since most of the peices of the bike seem to be there.

However, if I don't recieve the ownership/ reciept in the mail, I doubt it would be legally rideable.

Still, for a mere $200 it will be worth the experience just to custom paint the bike with a kick-ass paint job/ mural and reassemble the bike as a 'show bike'. Not to mention the experience I will get in disassembling, cleaning, tweaking, and reassembling the engine.

I am thinking of covering the tank, front and rear fender with H.R. Giger murals. However as this is my first bike (and I am bound to drop or crash it) I might want to start with something simpler, such as a flame job/ pinstripes, and so forth.

Ideally though, I would love to be able to ride this motorcycle as my first bike.
posted by:
James
Toronto
  • Re: Frankenbike

    Mon, October 15, 2007 - 12:43 PM
    What a project! You should definitely get some photoz up here for the before and after!
    • Re: Frankenbike

      Mon, October 15, 2007 - 11:03 PM
      That's very true! Actually, it would be excellent if I could take not only photos...but make a very detailed online blog/ webpage regarding the entire project. Not only would taking notes help me in reconstructing the bike (so I am not second guessing myself and doubling back), but it would also serve as an online guide to anyone else attempting to disassemble/ reassemble/ rebuild a motorcycle engine.

      One problem I have run into so far though, is I forgot to ask the guy for the ownership papers or a reciept when I got the bike. I called him on the phone immediately after I had remembered. He told me that he would either send me the ownership papers for the bike, or a complex receipt for the bike. He will be sending this through the mail. My concern now is that he might not send me the ownership/ reciept. Heck, this bike might have even been stolen for all I know. I haven't checked out the VIN numbers. I don't know how to do that.

      It would be pretty heartbreaking to put this bike back together, and then not be able to take it onto the road legally. Well, in that case I can still put the bike together for the educational benefit of it...I would still have a bike to cannabilize parts from, not to mention a showbike when I got the H.R. Giger murals done on the tank and fenders.
      • Re: Frankenbike

        Tue, October 16, 2007 - 7:25 AM
        you can checkout the VIN free on any number of sites on the internet -- just google "lookup motorcycle VIN" or something to that effect.
        • Re: Frankenbike

          Wed, October 17, 2007 - 7:31 PM
          Thanks Rick. How would I get the bike registered to me?
          • Re: Frankenbike

            Fri, October 19, 2007 - 7:48 AM
            without paperwork from whoever is the owner of record, you have a parts bike. That's pretty much the story in Cali as far as I know. This kind of hassle is why I'm leery of dealing with individuals at all, and would pretty much insist on having a bill of sale and a signed-over title before handing over money or walking off.
  • Re: Frankenbike

    Sun, October 21, 2007 - 3:45 PM
    If you lived in CA, you could put file for a lien sale with the DMV and obtain ownership of the bike in a few weeks.

    I'm guessing whereever you live probaly has a similar avenue for legally taking ownership of a bike that doe not have the proper paperwork.
  • Re: Frankenbike

    Wed, October 24, 2007 - 7:44 PM

    James you posted the same thread on Vintage bikes...
    I typed out a big response, and now, I'm a little lazy, so I'm posting here:

    by the way ... GREAT news about the paperwork!
    <><><><><><><><>

    James...

    couple things...

    first... for $200 you have the incentive to learn a brand new, kinda cool thing to know... rebuilding a motorcycle.
    consider the time and money you put into this to be the cost of an education... keep with that spirit and you will get a great deal out o the experience...
    concern yourself too much with whether or not you got ripped off and you will not get out of it what you need to get out of it.
    from the sound of it you have the right attitude.
    Work hard on getting the legal paper work you need - top priority!

    I am hoping that you have a friend... a good friend that would be willing to help you out with some of the major stuff...
    like lifting the engine into/out of place...
    Also... extremely helpful, would be someone there to help you to make ysure you are doing things that moight affect you safety wise, when you put the whole thing back together...
    it ain't cool to have a wheel come flying off or some other such "incident"
    keep in mind... if you do some dumb things while rebuilding a car, it may cause some problems, but you are in a hard steel shell to protect you if you need to do something desperate to stop yourself... and/or a wheel comes off - you have three that are still on...
    Not so with a motorcycle.

    I think you should absolutely paint it and go nuts with the paint... especially if that is the main reason you got this bike, and it is the most exciting part for you...

    I think the advice to just get it together and then ride for a year is also good - heres why...
    rebuilding a motorcycle is a BIG project. And, it's not all gonna be as fun as painting. (although.. for me painting it the most tedious part!) so... the concern I think being expressed is... if it don't run... if it ain't safe to ride... it don't matter how great a paint job is.

    Ultimately, I think *many* others on this tribe might agree... if you got an old bike, you sure as f#*k better know how to work on it yourself - and there is no better way to learn that than rebuilding your own from scratch... where you are at.

    Good Luck and keep us posted ok...
    • Re: Frankenbike

      Thu, October 25, 2007 - 1:18 AM
      Thanks for this advice Tom. I actually plan to keep an online blog of my activities, not only so that other people can see how a bike would be rebuilt and learn from my mistakes, but also so that I can reference it myself.

      However, it seems that someone else has already beat me to the idea! This is Dave's website about the Honda Nighthawk 650SC that he rebuilt, and how he did it. I plan to use this as a guide to help me, as well as the manuals.

      www.myhonda650.com/index.htm

      This doesn't mean that I can't have my own blog/ site dedicated to my own rebuilding project though of course! I have actually run into a few blogs of guys putting together one of these Honda 650's as a 'project bike'.

      I can certainly see the wisdom of 'holding off' on a custom paint job for a little while, since it would probably get scratched off if I dropped or crashed the bike...which is bound to happen. Also it would be my first priority to get the bike put back together and running so I could ride around on it for a while and develop my riding skills. Also, I have learned that one of the 'peculiarities' about this bike is that it tends to start smelling like burning paint at high speeds. I am wondering if getting a high temperature paint such as barbecue paint might be a good way to go...for painting the frame at least.

      So, I suppose that the bike could start out as a 'rat bike' for a year...before it's incarnation as a show-bike of sorts the next year. After all, I can paint the fenders and the gas tank when the bike is back together and running properly.

      Personally I think it is a good deal for $200, but it looks like I may have to invest in a few hundred dollars worth of equipment, if not a thousand. As you pointed out though, I should have this stuff and be able to repair and maintain my bike myself if I have one of these vintage machines.
  • Re: Frankenbike

    Tue, November 20, 2007 - 2:27 PM
    I am not sure if the new california carb rules will affect you or not. I know if California wins the lawsuit against the epa it will.

    thekneeslider.com/archives/...m-the-epa/
    • Re: Frankenbike

      Sun, February 3, 2008 - 3:35 PM
      Night T, I uploaded one photo of what it looks like now. More pics will follow.

      Rip Cor: Thanks for that link. I don't know about the carb rules. I doubt they would affect me since I am in Canada, but you never know. It's certainly something worth taking into consideration. I know that Honda uses an emissions filter which reduces a lot of the 'gunk' which comes out of the exhaust. Harley doesn't. Since this bike is half Harley, half Honda, i'm not sure about where to stick all the emissions filtering stuff which would normally go between the battery box and the swing arm.
      • Re: Frankenbike

        Mon, February 4, 2008 - 9:01 AM
        dude damn i didnt realize you had such a project.

        so james do you know if the engines any good at all. man i hate to point this out but if you gotz a bad engine thats gonna cost you some coins. thank goodness my current bike has a solid engine even with some of its minor oil leaks. anyhooo one thing that helped me when i was rebuilding my vw bus engine was having some solid advice from peeps that knew their shit as well as being able to borrow some cool tools to supplement my own. but man that was a bitch to put back together no matter what other freaks tell ya... not all vw engines are easy to fix or rebuild... especially ones with a fuel injection... almost gave up after months of toiling with it but damn glad i finished it.

        anyhooo so ur franenbike... well now you gotz the papers so thats no worry... you could still use it for parts and get a working bike and still use this one a piece of art. albeit an expensive piece of canvas to work on but hey you could always take pictures and no ones gonna be wise as it not being a running bike. either way it would be a nice canvas for your paint/ art work if that is indeed the direction you wanna go.

        i still say what i said to you pm... my advice get a working running beater that you will be okay with crashing or dropping (safely of course) and use what you got for parts and possible canvas. unless you want to be a full out bike mechanic you really dont need to learn all about the bike. i dont and yet im still able to fix most things on bikes and cars... and if i dont know... i get help from those that do... and in the worst case situation take it to the shops... which i really dont like doing but then again hey its easier sometimes to let others take care of the details.
        • Re: Frankenbike

          Tue, February 5, 2008 - 5:42 AM
          Heh, well I don't actually KNOW if the engine is running or not. I was told when I bought it that the bike was running and being ridden last spring. There is still oil in the bike, although that doesn't mean anything in itself. I have heard that it would cost about $400 for a new/ used engine that runs.
          I spoke with a bike mechanic. He estimates that this bike needs about $1,500 in parts. It would cost that in labor again, even with an honest mechanic. So yeah, it would definitely be worth it to buy another bike for $1000 or so to ride around on while keeping this one as a side project.
  • Re: Frankenbike

    Tue, February 5, 2008 - 7:08 AM
    James, at least you found out about this "false economy" after the fact. Someone warned me before hand and I didn't follow his advice. Then again I couldn't afford a $2000 bike at the time. This was my previous bike.

    Let us know when you get the paperwork is in your hands. There's a joke here in the United States which asks what are the three biggest lies told in America... one of them is that the check's in the mail. We'll exclude the other two in mixed company.

    Loki's right. In California a Bill of Sale is good enough. I'm guessing because if it's stolen property they could trace it back to the seller.

    Now about the customization: My current bike is a 1980 CB 650 Custom that's got a lot of customization. It's a pain in the ass because the bike was engineered as a system and now it has parts foreign to that system. The tail pipes - as cool as the are - are not exactly compatible with the carbs, they are impossible to adjust to perfection. I'll have to sell them at some point. I'm not even sure the seat is the proper one as it's instability was a factor in a spill I had about a year ago.

    I'm not giving up on the bike. I'm restoring it to it's perfect state. It's a good bike and 1980 was an important year in my life. And before I get too sentimental and either bore anyone or make 'em wanna puke I just want to say there's hope. Do the research. There are a lot of good threads in this and the Motorcyclists tribes. Also, I just ordered a microfiche which helped me on my old bike. It shows everything pulled apart and how everything should fit together. Check out: fiche.ronayers.com if it's on eBay, it's probably cheaper. Trust me, for this situation bargain hunting is a big help.

    And please keep us updated. We all love a good bike story.

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