Just because someone is wearing a ratty vest doesn't instill more respect into them from me. If so, I'm going to start wearing a denim vest with the sleeves ripped off, put on some patches, and demand you give me a dollar.

Yeah, it sounds stupid from where I'm standing too.

Just because someone is in a motorcycle club doesn't give them any more preferential treatment than those who aren't. The days of when a person was automatically a motorcycle hooligan are long over. Now you find dentists, lawyers, and other people riding. The true motorcycle "outlaws" are a minority. If you believe otherwise, you're still hanging onto a Brando fantasy that ended decades ago.

So no, they don't get any more respect than the common man.

Well said Psycho..

The legal system won't help? Uh huh, got any citations to back up those claims?

I grew up in the SFV in the 50's & 60's. There were alot of clubs, car, motorcycle and social. When I got into High School which is when I had most of my incounters with such, car clubs were on the wane, but still very much there. Lowriders were the 'outlaws' in most respects, though there were still some Hot Rod clubbers who were street racing, partying and fighting. the 50's was the high point of car clubs IMO. The lowriders were the Mexican and Anglo 'greasers' and were active in the drug (parmacuticals) trade, they also partied & cruised. Like the Hot Rod clubs some Low Riders were more 'legit' than others. I mention these non MC clubbers because they were part of the whole scene at the time. In the SFV there was a large contingent of AMA bikers like the Checkers and then the non affiliated 'sport' bikers, desert riders etc. The 1% clubs were the Galliping Gooses and the Satan Slaves. The Gooses were mostly older guys of the WWII and Korean era. I had a close friend who's father was a member. The Slaves later were absorbed by the HA's. When I was in HS I saw them quite often, Slaves more than Gooses. It was much wilder then, much more public display and fighting. I would hear about murders etc., all hearsay of course. The high point of my contact with these guys was when I worked at Shasta Trailers in Simi Valley. There was one Slave that I knew and a prospect. Thievery was pretty common. I went to a party, where there were Slaves in Chatsworth and I really knew better, I ended up giving up my ride and hitch hiked home early.

>>>Vagos colors: green...International 1%

--->I wasn't aware they were 1%ers. Are the HA aware of this?

>>>Cop clubs are not taken seriously by anyone in the club world. They are just a bunch of clowns trying to pretend they're something they could never be.

--->I don't agree with that. Cops have a brotherhood too, and I think MC's try to avoid cops as much as possible... Including cop clubs.

I know of some instances where local law enforcement has begun giving the local MC some respect also. Showing up at toy runs, etc...

I may be wrong here, you can correct me Flint if I am.
But it feels like there is simply an occurance of selfrespecting idealism trying to make sense of a part of the practical world that does not always honor such noble ideals.

If I understand Flints intention behind what he is saying, its simply a noble honoring of the fact that innately he and everyone else is inherently no less than others who congregate in mc gangs and wear certain colors or patches, etc.. And that in a healthy and ideal world, he and others should not be bothered or put their metaphorical tail between their legs when near other people who belong to a gang or such. Because they are all just fundamentally equal people, no more or less important.
Ultimately I tend to agree with that, myself.

Perhaps what others are trying to say, is that while this equality should mean that we need not act diminutively or self-effacingly around HA or others groups, the simple fact is that some people just do not share that way of perceiving and acting on their feelings. And I can say from experience with people of many areas of life, the ideals and values of human kindness and harmony definitely differ among people.
There are people in life, some of them belonging to certain groups of people and riders would be no suprise, who technically know what the laws are that are "supposed" to prevent them from acting out violently or "antisocially" - but do not care in the moment. If there were not people like that, there would be absolutely no murders, assaults, thefts, burglaries, wars, rapes, etc in this country and world.
Yet it is easy to see that such actions are frequently committed by - people. People who just moments before were walking down the street, buying groceries, hanging out at a bar, driving their vehicle of choice or any other mundane thing like any seemingly "normal" person.
To some degree we can sense, intuit, feel or use discernment in the moment with some people to sense if they might be prone or open to such violent behaviors. Then again, maybe its not always so in your face apparent?

So Flint may just be trying to express his natural insight or feeling of the truth that we are all fundamentally equal human beings and should not have to cow down or act any MORE deferential to others just because they belong to a group, fly a patch, are a bit more prone to acting violently or are just seen as doing so.
And others seem to be agreeing with that understanding, while also acknowledging the simple fact that there are some people in life who just dont care about that, and who value certain ideas of honor, deferential treatment and are more willing to use violence as methods of correcting perceived infringements by others on their honor or whatever.
Not that most 1%ers even would certainly be this way upon meeting them under normal circumstances. But the possibilty is real. Whether it is right, fair, legal or not will not change it.
There are many respectful, fair, good people in life.
And sometimes "wrong", unfair, illegal things are done by people who, for one reason or another either get away with it legally or get caught and prosecuted - but still did whatever it was before getting prosecuted anyway.

I don't think anyone advocated that you get violent, quite the opposite. They were pointing out that you were not being realistic.

I've looked at what you wrote several times now. If you present yourself in person as you did online, some people will take offense and will not hesitate to hoohaa you straight to an ER. If you aren't already spending time around three patch clubs, best to keep it that way. If you ever do and the closest thing you have to an apology is "there was a miscommunication" you will not be pleased with the results.

If one person misreads you, you can write it off as their mistake. If half a dozen people all "misread" you at the same time, maybe you're putting out there something that is worth looking at.

Hi Kenny.

I really don't care how much sleep he is or is not getting. My point was i really don't care about him at all.

ahhh fukit! I gotta say more coz man o man I just checked out Goat's profile.

Brother (yes if you ride your a brother, if your an asshole your still a brother on the road, your just also an asshole) you should consider "less is more" on your pix profile.

I do appreciate the laughs you've brought me (and likely others). Nice attempt with the post though, it could have been more productive. Hey try again sometime.

And ya, I know that my profile is dim. I was hella active in the past and my life became too involved and rewarding in RL to attend to tribe. I deleted my profile pix (man really, think on this idea!) and dropped a bunch of friends who were only there for my amusment. So no, I'm not some noob with an attitude. You poked a brother of mine, and for that you get my response and attention. Glass houses and all, huh.

<burger in my back yard this weekend BE THERE! BYOB.>

Thanks but that is toooo long a ride this time of year. (yea i'm old and sick.)

In my view facism is the view of a group that has little tolerence for the view of the individual. I don't disagree with the definition of the former post. It can be in the form of a government, it can be any institution, a club, a political party, which the Italian Facists were before they became a government. The key elements are nationalism, racism and intolerance for other views or races.
'Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers individual and other societal interests subordinate to the interests of the state. Fascists seek to forge a type of national unity, usually based on (but not limited to) ethnic, cultural, or racial attributes. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, corporatism, populism, collectivism, and opposition to economic and political liberalism.'
So my view of MC clubs, particularly the 'three patch' kind. Things have changed since 30 yrs ago. The club mind IMHO has not. Clubs might not be interested in 'interests of the state' if your in the club your interests are subordinate to the club, no doubt!

It's been my observation that motorcycle clubs tend to share a right-wing anarchist philosophy.

"Motorcycle clubs more closesly resemble a democracy"