Motorcycle clubs

"Just because they have an ultimate way of dealing with things does not put them above the societal reprecussions."

In a theoretical sense, I can agree. Nobody's saying it's the way things would be in an ideal world, just what it is. As a practical matter, they are probably more willing to go to jail to demonstrate group solidarity than you are to go to the hospital to test your theory.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I'm just giving you a little information. I really don't give a shit whether you take it or leave it.

It is factual information based on my personal experiences.

Feel free to go to your local HA hangout and put your theories to a practical test and let me know exactly how law enforcement or civil suits are able to protect you from getting hurt or worse.

> Your example isn't really a factual example, only a guess on
> what you think may happen. Unless there is proof of your
> statement, you don't really have much validity to your
> arguement.

No the case at all. An argument based on commonsense reasoning can often be more plausible and persuasive than one based on an admittedly factual but perhaps non-representative "example". Humans can be very good at judging what is reasonable, but they also tend to exaggerate the importance of anecdotal evidence. A single case is, inevitably, anecdotal. And an example that goes so far as to show up in the legal system is exceptional, and so will be an extraordinarily poor indicator of what people will experience in their everyday lives.

If Jay has experience, than I'd rather hear his "guesses" than get a citation from the California Supremes.

The only "evidence" I'd be tempted to value above my own commonsense would be a full-blown academic study that carefully elaborates on what, how, and why things were measured and compared -- ideally a peer reviewed one.

What these gentlemen are saying is right on the money. I was a practicing trial lawyer for eight years, and I promise you that if you have no defendant to pinpoint, nor a deep pocket to pursue (because you judgment-proof defendant w/o any assets to attach in the evnet of a judgment,) your suit is useless. Utterly. good luck even getting a lawyer to tkae it on.. You'd most likely have to go the useless Pro Se (representing yourself) route.

And going from the civil arena to the criminal arena, all of my prosecutor friends freely admit that their job performance, bonuses, raises and promotins are ALL based largely upon theri numbers (conviciont rates). Very few prosecutors take cases that do not hav e ahigh likelihood of success. Period.

Also, Dear LORD! but I don't know what universe of pansies YOU live in, but a real man simply does not refrain from acting due to a fear of a fucking lawsuit if he's been brought to a violence boiling point. You can take my word for that.

I sese you may be quite gifted at driving people to violence, though: Your intransigence, and rifid adherence to your position, is beginning to broder on the insufferable. Truly. (Predictably), you will respond defenseilvey to this, of course, but I assure you it is wasted on me. you amuse me

Anyway, I am happy to call your bluff: why don't we take this out of the theoretical, and I invite you to put your attitude to the test in field conditions. And please share wihth us how it all turns out for you! I really look forward to it.

It works the other way too. Down here in L.A. there was a guy in a van who rammed into a pack of patch holders from behind, killing one and seriously fucking up a few others, he did donuts & came around again. The cops did nothing! I was close freinds with a few of the bikers and heard about it for some time. They couldn't get the cops to do anything. Even though they got his plates and description.

Also, You have to take into account that many patch holders are volatile by nature. They aren't like Joe Blow w/ a new bike out on the weekend. Many are in jail. Yes, you may get a conviction but only after the damage is done to you. It's a matter of street smarts, not about giving respect just because someone wears a patch or colors.